I’ve kind of been avoiding it for a long time but I’m currently reading Preaching Re-Imagined by Doug Pagitt. I’ve been avoiding it because much of what I’ve heard him say about this book is stuff I already agree with or I know I need to wrestle with. I’ve been afraid of having to make lasting decisions about the role of preaching and teaching in communities of faith but I ordered the book and here I go.
Parts that stuck out to me thus far:
It’s easy to realize more people are listening to more great preaching content then ever before. Current technology makes us able to listen to almost anyone, anywhere and all throughout history. But if you look around at the lack of people living in the way of Jesus it’s obvious that great preaching isn’t sufficient. It’s lunacy to think more of the same thing will solve the problem.
Pagitt’s contention is that the problem is not preaching (proclaiming) necessarily but our current method of preaching which he calls “speaching.”
“Speaching is not defined by the style of the presentation but by the relationship of the presenter to both the listeners and the content: the pastor uses a lecture-like format, often standing while the listeners are sitting. The speacher decides the content ahead of time, usually in a removed setting, and then offers it in such a way that the speacher is control of the content, speed, and conclusion of the presentation.”
Pagitt feels that speaching damages our people and creates a sense of powerlessness in them (one that we did not intend).
“As a pastor I want to be a part of a community where the workings of God are imbedded in all, where the roles of teaching and learning aren’t mine alone but instead are something intrinsic to who we are as a people.”
Reading that last quote makes me want to sing. It rings true in my heart and I long for discovering a faithful way forward in this practice. As Paul said “Let the message of Christ dwell among (us) richly as (we) teach and admonish one another with all wisdom through psalms, hymns and songs from the Spirit, singing to God with Gratitude in (our) hearts.” I’m tired of all the weight being on me and what I’m bringing to the table. Later in the book he talks about how Jesus couldn’t do any miracles in his hometown because of their lack of faith. “Is it really that big a stretch to believe that our sermons can be influenced by the same factors?”
Pagitt suggests the alternative of “progressional dialogue,” where the content of the presentation is established in the context of a healthy relationship between the presenter and the listeners, and substantive changes in the content are then created as a result of this relationship.” I’ve been working for some time on helping cultivate environments where it’s natural to trust the spirit to lead us as we bounce back and forth between each others comments and the scriptures (mostly influenced by Alan Roxburgh).
Pagitt’s definition of progressional dialoge very ambiguous especially the part that I left above. I did this on purpose because I’m trying not to focus on how I know his community does it but on the idea of it in general.
If preaching is a socializing force and a formative practice in a community like Pagitt says then we really need to sit back and think hard about how our preaching is socializing and forming our community.
How do you think the current method of preaching that you are used to socializes and forms a community in positive and negative ways?
What are some dreams about preaching that would form and socialize in new ways that we may need in our current context?
I am also attempting new methods of preaching in the middle school ministry and I hope to chronicle how that is going. Last week we set up the chairs in a way where everybody could see everybody and I tried to stay seated the whole time instead of lording over them. It went okay but I hadn’t set it up for much interaction. I’m planning on more questions and discussion this week.
I’d love to get some thoughts on the two highlighted questions above.
Parts that stuck out to me thus far:
It’s easy to realize more people are listening to more great preaching content then ever before. Current technology makes us able to listen to almost anyone, anywhere and all throughout history. But if you look around at the lack of people living in the way of Jesus it’s obvious that great preaching isn’t sufficient. It’s lunacy to think more of the same thing will solve the problem.
Pagitt’s contention is that the problem is not preaching (proclaiming) necessarily but our current method of preaching which he calls “speaching.”
“Speaching is not defined by the style of the presentation but by the relationship of the presenter to both the listeners and the content: the pastor uses a lecture-like format, often standing while the listeners are sitting. The speacher decides the content ahead of time, usually in a removed setting, and then offers it in such a way that the speacher is control of the content, speed, and conclusion of the presentation.”
Pagitt feels that speaching damages our people and creates a sense of powerlessness in them (one that we did not intend).
“As a pastor I want to be a part of a community where the workings of God are imbedded in all, where the roles of teaching and learning aren’t mine alone but instead are something intrinsic to who we are as a people.”
Reading that last quote makes me want to sing. It rings true in my heart and I long for discovering a faithful way forward in this practice. As Paul said “Let the message of Christ dwell among (us) richly as (we) teach and admonish one another with all wisdom through psalms, hymns and songs from the Spirit, singing to God with Gratitude in (our) hearts.” I’m tired of all the weight being on me and what I’m bringing to the table. Later in the book he talks about how Jesus couldn’t do any miracles in his hometown because of their lack of faith. “Is it really that big a stretch to believe that our sermons can be influenced by the same factors?”
Pagitt suggests the alternative of “progressional dialogue,” where the content of the presentation is established in the context of a healthy relationship between the presenter and the listeners, and substantive changes in the content are then created as a result of this relationship.” I’ve been working for some time on helping cultivate environments where it’s natural to trust the spirit to lead us as we bounce back and forth between each others comments and the scriptures (mostly influenced by Alan Roxburgh).
Pagitt’s definition of progressional dialoge very ambiguous especially the part that I left above. I did this on purpose because I’m trying not to focus on how I know his community does it but on the idea of it in general.
If preaching is a socializing force and a formative practice in a community like Pagitt says then we really need to sit back and think hard about how our preaching is socializing and forming our community.
How do you think the current method of preaching that you are used to socializes and forms a community in positive and negative ways?
What are some dreams about preaching that would form and socialize in new ways that we may need in our current context?
I am also attempting new methods of preaching in the middle school ministry and I hope to chronicle how that is going. Last week we set up the chairs in a way where everybody could see everybody and I tried to stay seated the whole time instead of lording over them. It went okay but I hadn’t set it up for much interaction. I’m planning on more questions and discussion this week.
I’d love to get some thoughts on the two highlighted questions above.
10 comments:
I've been thinking about this as well... Preaching, void of community, is ineffective.
Community in this sense can be positive or negative. It can be argued that Jesus had a sense of community with the Pharisees (he loved them, and they at least knew where he stood on things).
(Sorry, I'm reading this comment, and it makes no sense, but it's what I'm thinking, so I'm throwing it out there).
Yeah it makes sense to me. I think that teaching and preaching that's void of community can have it's place at times and in listening to others who are outside of our community. Although like you said how you learn something is as important as what you learn. I see steps at our church to draw people in more and more...as the space for preaching moved out to be more among people, several people interact over the sermon each week on Monday, etc... Considering the past these are actually pretty big steps towards a message emerging from the community. We'll see where God takes us.
for a while now i have disliked the fact that evangelical churches have made preaching the main thing in their services, which doesn't seem to fit the historical practice of corporate worship in my mind. Recently a prof at my school quoted a study of people who were unchurched and are now churched, i think it was people who have entered in this communitty within the past two years, anyway there was an open ended question about what got them finally connected or what was the most influential thing in their change, 97% of them wrote down that it was the preaching which finally made sense to them. I don't like this, but preaching even in its current state can be powerful in changing lives. I don't know what i really think about it but it has challenged my negativity towards the centrality of preaching
Interesting thought...
We see preaching as "The Word".
True or False?
Is size a limiting factor in progressional dialogue? Can you do it in a church that numbers over 100?
I think size makes progressional dialogue extremely limited if the majority of it is happening during the prescribed "teaching/preaching" time. There are many others ways to discover a communal voice though I think. I'm discovering that in the middle school ministry it doesn't work well to try to do it during the "teaching/preaching" time based on students maturity levels, understanding and patience.
The author of the book has a meeting weekly that anyone is invited to where they read the appointed scripture for the weekend and then discuss, offer insights, questions and focus in on what the text might be offering their community specifically. Something like this would be possibly with a church of any size. They usually have discussion during the sermon or afterwards but I think at least 60% of what's being processed is done in advance then the person teaching assembles thoughts and ideas (at the church I'm at it's really cool to watch a pastor who's spent all this time preparing a sermon scratch down thoughts or words he hears from people during the prayer meeting 20 minutes before he goes up to preach).
I think the main point is do we belive that the spirit of God exists among the people? Do we believe that he is speaking to the body and only when we listen together can we become who is making us to be? If so how do we do that? It will look different in different contexts but that should be the driving force I think.
More importantly I think in progressional dialogue you are listening for how the story implicates you as a body of believers quite a lot (not just individually) which is something foreign these days. Then once we have some leading as to the corporate direction how are we following up with that (practices, projects, worship songs, scriptures, prayers, reading, discussion, etc...)
One idea for a large church would be to create a different groups that gather to discuss an upcoming text or subject. You could have the groups change regularly and with e-mail nowadays some of the possibilities are endless.
Althought there is an important distinction between Q/A and people sharing then someone feeding off of that comment, then we are drawn to a different part of the text, then we feed off of that, and the group jumps back and forth going somewhere by the spirit they can only go together. In my mind that's what has to happen for it to be "progressional dialogue"?
Are their problems with it? YES
Am I really sure what it is? NO
But it's funny experimenting, thinking, trusting and praying.
Unfortunately I think many times the sermon is viewed as "the word" and I don't think that's helpful.
Agreed.
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